Lines, Patterns

[bodhisoma]

I hope I'm not opening a whole can of worms here but it occurs to me that given a list of hands that go to showdown, there is nothing to stop someone from parsing that information and spitting out something like:

* A 50% pot-sized cbet is 62% likely to be a bluff and 38% likely to be a semi-bluff.
* A 75% pot-sized cbet is 95% likely to be TPTK.
* A 20-35% pot-sized cbet is likely to be a monster (2pr+).

...etc.

Let's face it, while this might not be terribly useful at nosebleeds, such information is basically what attentive players do in notes and at least one characteristic that separates the good players from the fish.

Of course there's different ways to display the data, perhaps "villain prefers to check/call draws OOP, etc.", basically using the data to take one more step and go from displaying numbers to displaying what these things actually mean in a given situation.

Additionally, one could drill down into those items listed above and find that the difference between villain being IP or OOP changes those numbers (or perhaps doesn't change them at all).

What's preventing PT from doing something like this? Does it cross into some kind of taboo, being what could be seen as a predictive tool, a line-in-the-sand, somehow?

Thanks much in advance.

[bodhisoma]

Generally not a fan of bumping one's own message but I can't imagine this isn't something that (a) people wouldn't be interested or (b) PT hasn't considered or explored.

So one time; bamp. Anyone?

[kraada]

The problem here, if you're going to do this for a specific player, is that sample size is going to be very small.

Say you play 500 hands with a player - of those he has a VPIP of 20 and, for the sake of argument say he always sees the flop when he puts money in. So we have 100 flop hands. Of those, a normal WTSD number would be somewhere between 20 and 25 - say it's on the high end and we have 25.

Now we have 25 times he saw showdown somehow. And likely not all of those were actually chances to cbet. If he varies his bet sizing we might well see only one or two examples of a given bet size that he made and got to showdown.

So you could certainly do this kind of analysis - and NoteTracker would be the place to start I think - but don't expect to have a ton of great information right away. Because of your two categories: 2p+, TPTK, semi-bluff, bluff . . . how many of those 25 hands that he got to showdown where he was the aggressor do you think he would often have 2p+?

[bodhisoma]

Huh, I wasn't even aware of NoteTracker's existence, been too busy getting my grind on. =)

Can you suggest any tutorials on getting it set up? I tried winging it, no ruck. Specifically, opened it via Tools. Then I have T and Status toggled on, for some reason it reads "Processed 8,424 Hands. (99.92% Complete)." I click Run, nothing appears to happen.

So are there any how-to-get-started vids floating around?

Thanks a ton, kraada.

[WhiteRider]

The tutorials and videos are not ready yet as our functionality is still changing. These will be released as we get towards the commercial release.
Notes are only generated for hands after the date specified on the Status tab, so try setting that earlier if you want notes on all of your hands.

[bodhisoma]

Thanks Whiterider.

While I *was* able to import 100% (purged, retried after setting date back), I'm not sure how to see the notes generated, tried a bunch of things, appeared to generate some notes, maybe, but they don't appear in the notes attached to the player. Fiddled with it for about a half hour, I'm stumped.

I guess I can see not having exhaustive documentation for a Beta release but it's hard to test software when getting to the point of actual *use* isn't possible. That's like sending people into combat with swimming fins and squirtguns. =)

[WhiteRider]

Are you looking at tournaments?
Did you add any NoteTracker rules? There aren't yet any default rules for tournaments so unless you added some there won't be any notes. These will be added, but I don't yet know when.

[bodhisoma]

I've created a rule in Tournament > Edit, pretty self-explanatory, it's exactly what the name suggests+.

Code: Select all

Active     Category     Name             Game
[x]        Overall      Raised Steal     Holdem

...and that's where I can't figure out how to proceed.

I can go into Tournament > Test, change selection to "All Hands", then click Test, which appears to tell me that precisely one hand was found matching this rule (obviously not true unless I munged the definition) and indicates a player, tournament and hand but when I go to that specific hand, and check the notes, doesn't exist (tho obv. the notes for the player do not need to be looked at by viewing that particular hand). Perhaps not surprising given that I'm in the "test" area but I can't see how to make that happen IRL.

I head back to the Status tab, click "Start" under "Status," wait a while, head back to that same hand, still no note.

So ...I've got the "creating a rule" part down, mostly++, how do you actually trigger the insert portion of the process??

As usual, thanks much guys.

+ Tournament > Edit > New > Player > Actions & Opportunities > Preflop > Preflop Raises > Raised Steal ON

++ Under Filters there's "Player" and "Opponent" which I would assume means who is taking the actions but in this thread, the PT4 user is looking to tag villain actions, yet their criteria is listed to the right of "Player," so I'm not sure my assumption is at all correct.

[WhiteRider]

If you want a note on a player based on the actions that player took then you should use the "Player" filter.
To have notes applied to existing hands, which have already been processed by NoteTracker you need to purge the existing notes on the Status tab, so that hands are re-processed.